Decreasing Ban Risk

[Blini]

Hello guys,

I want to create the ultimate “safe botting" thread with a bit of your help. I did research and put together a bunch of information acquired from previous threads and google. This thread will be about "tunneling”, “SSH", “VPS”, “Proxies" and “IP-Address”.

So everybody just talks about tunneling, servers and ping like if they were talking about apples and oranges. I had to do research to differentiate and understand them. What is "tunnel", “VPS”, proxy" and “IP-Address":

~IP-Address: each computer has a unique number “IP-Address” that helps companies identify users and get their location. It’s important to know that IP-Addresses are assigned to each computer by the ISP (internet service provider) but you can temporally change it while using another service such as VPS or by using a public network.
~VPS (virtual private server): a server hosted by a server-hosting company that allow their users to use their server in order to get the benefits of virtually locating you wherever the server is hosted and use their IP-Address.
~Proxy: it is something that stands in between the servers and your computer filtering information.
~Tunneling: You can choose where you want to virtually be located as long as there is a server over there.

__________________________________________________ _____________________
Things I don’t know but would be useful to know:
(Assuming you have many botting accounts on the same computer under the same wifi)

-If all your botting accounts use the same VPS would that be the same as if you don’t use a VPS? In other words, do you have to use a different IP-Address for each botting account to reduce risks of CiftSoft knowing all those accounts are from the same botter?
-Should you use VPS when logging into your tibia account and while playing tibia or just while playing tibia? I saw a post from @blakw which help me understand part of my question: "I would advice using a web proxy to mask your real IP when creating accounts so you wont get blacklisted in any way.”
-Are you at big risk if you forgot to use the VPS once and use your regular IP-Address with both botting accounts? "If i have 2 accounts, created from different IPs but i want to bot both of then... I must learn about SSH? Or just Tibia Tunel or some proxys like thats worth it? I should open one tibia without it and the other with the proxy? If needed a SSH, could you please suggest me? blakw@ responded: "Id suggest Battleping.com and you can run multiple instances of it.”

__________________________________________________ _____________________
Which VPS To Choose:
I have also heard that some VPS do not really hide your IP-Address from CiftSoft and that some do. Based on experience which ones would you guys say are the best and safest to keep your accounts secret from CiftSoft? @Pidek098 said: "I spoke with that program supports in past they confirm that their tools no mask IP and at end is your original IP. Also if you would use any of that programs, and lets say it would mask ur IP, still each character u login on that machine will have same IP. SSH is good way.”

Servers I have heard are good:
www.vultr.com/
TunnellBear
www.ipvanish.com
www.privateinternetaccess.com
Battleping
dragonara.net
Staminus

If you know any other tips and want to help out with this threat will be awesome!

[Josh]

Hello guys,

I want to create the ultimate “safe botting" thread with a bit of your help. I did research and put together a bunch of information acquired from previous threads and google. This thread will be about "tunneling”, “SSH", “VPS”, “Proxies" and “IP-Address”.

So everybody just talks about tunneling, servers and ping like if they were talking about apples and oranges. I had to do research to differentiate and understand them. What is "tunnel", “VPS”, proxy" and “IP-Address":

~IP-Address: each computer has a unique number “IP-Address” that helps companies identify users and get their location. It’s important to know that IP-Addresses are assigned to each computer by the ISP (internet service provider) but you can temporally change it while using another service such as VPS or by using a public network.
~VPS (virtual private server): a server hosted by a server-hosting company that allow their users to use their server in order to get the benefits of virtually locating you wherever the server is hosted and use their IP-Address.
~Proxy: it is something that stands in between the servers and your computer filtering information.
~Tunneling: You can choose where you want to virtually be located as long as there is a server over there.

__________________________________________________ _____________________
Things I don’t know but would be useful to know:
(Assuming you have many botting accounts on the same computer under the same wifi)

-If all your botting accounts use the same VPS would that be the same as if you don’t use a VPS? In other words, do you have to use a different IP-Address for each botting account to reduce risks of CiftSoft knowing all those accounts are from the same botter?
-Should you use VPS when logging into your tibia account and while playing tibia or just while playing tibia? I saw a post from @blakw which help me understand part of my question: "I would advice using a web proxy to mask your real IP when creating accounts so you wont get blacklisted in any way.”
-Are you at big risk if you forgot to use the VPS once and use your regular IP-Address with both botting accounts? "If i have 2 accounts, created from different IPs but i want to bot both of then... I must learn about SSH? Or just Tibia Tunel or some proxys like thats worth it? I should open one tibia without it and the other with the proxy? If needed a SSH, could you please suggest me? blakw@ responded: "Id suggest Battleping.com and you can run multiple instances of it.”

If you know any other tips and want to help out with this threat will be awesome!

To clarify:

An IP address is not limited to a single PC, nor in fact to a single network connection. IP addresses are now frequently pooled, so previously it was possible that you could have 10,000 computers all sharing a public IP address, they would have had to have been connected to the same network. Now, however, you can have 10,000 different houses all with their own network connection, using the same IP address. This technology is fairly new, but it does exist and is being actively rolled out in the UK and other countries.

An IP address is registered to an ISP and the "lease-holder" of the IP address must provide an approximate location. My location, for instance, shows as being about 100km from where I live, which is pretty inaccurate.

A VPS is mostly used by botters not to hide their IP address but to run bots 24/7. The main use is to install Tibia and WindBot, so you don't have to have a PC switched on 24/7 in your house. It can, however, also be used for SSH tunneling, which does indeed hide your IP address.

A proxy service does not typically "filter" information, it just re-routes it. Instead of your traffic going from point A to point C via point B, it might go via point D, which could be faster, slower, or just more stable. In some circumstances this also changes your IP address, however proxies can also run internally (such as BlackD proxy) and modify packets or even create them, to simulate behavior. Types of proxies include tunnels, VPNs (Virtual Private Networks), and interception proxies. BlackD proxy (the cavebot for Tibia) is an interception proxy, TibiaTunnel is a tunnel proxy, ExpressVPN is a VPN type proxy.

A tunnel is what you'd use in conjunction with a VPS if you only wanted to hide your IP address. This only redirects traffic on from a given port on your machine to wherever the tunnel advertises. Tunnels such as NoPing are designed to also reduce latency and disconnection frequency during masskicks.

A VPN type proxy redirects all traffic on your machine via a certain route. This can be useful for bypassing things such as ISP DNS lookup blocks. In some countries, access to websites such as the pirate bay is blocked by an ISP DNS block, the domain name for the website is DNS-hijacked and (some might say illegally) replaced with the IP of a government website advising that the website is blocked. This type of proxy is really not built for gaming and mostly causes lag, but it can at times be useful.

Botting all accounts on a VPS is only useful for not leaving your PC on 24/7, so as you say, it doesn't really reduce deletion risk at all.

If you forget to use a SSH tunnel, for instance, you create a link between two accounts which cannot be undone. It's possible that this increases the risk for a big bot farm to be fully deleted, but really from CIP perspective it could just be that you visited a friends house with your laptop and logged in using his network (thus his IP address).

Hope this helps a bit.

[Blini]

To clarify:

An IP address is not limited to a single PC, nor in fact to a single network connection. IP addresses are now frequently pooled, so previously it was possible that you could have 10,000 computers all sharing a public IP address, they would have had to have been connected to the same network. Now, however, you can have 10,000 different houses all with their own network connection, using the same IP address. This technology is fairly new, but it does exist and is being actively rolled out in the UK and other countries.

An IP address is registered to an ISP and the "lease-holder" of the IP address must provide an approximate location. My location, for instance, shows as being about 100km from where I live, which is pretty inaccurate.

A VPS is mostly used by botters not to hide their IP address but to run bots 24/7. The main use is to install Tibia and WindBot, so you don't have to have a PC switched on 24/7 in your house. It can, however, also be used for SSH tunneling, which does indeed hide your IP address.

A proxy service does not typically "filter" information, it just re-routes it. Instead of your traffic going from point A to point C via point B, it might go via point D, which could be faster, slower, or just more stable. In some circumstances this also changes your IP address, however proxies can also run internally (such as BlackD proxy) and modify packets or even create them, to simulate behavior. Types of proxies include tunnels, VPNs (Virtual Private Networks), and interception proxies. BlackD proxy (the cavebot for Tibia) is an interception proxy, TibiaTunnel is a tunnel proxy, ExpressVPN is a VPN type proxy.

A tunnel is what you'd use in conjunction with a VPS if you only wanted to hide your IP address. This only redirects traffic on from a given port on your machine to wherever the tunnel advertises. Tunnels such as NoPing are designed to also reduce latency and disconnection frequency during masskicks.

A VPN type proxy redirects all traffic on your machine via a certain route. This can be useful for bypassing things such as ISP DNS lookup blocks. In some countries, access to websites such as the pirate bay is blocked by an ISP DNS block, the domain name for the website is DNS-hijacked and (some might say illegally) replaced with the IP of a government website advising that the website is blocked. This type of proxy is really not built for gaming and mostly causes lag, but it can at times be useful.

Botting all accounts on a VPS is only useful for not leaving your PC on 24/7, so as you say, it doesn't really reduce deletion risk at all.

If you forget to use a SSH tunnel, for instance, you create a link between two accounts which cannot be undone. It's possible that this increases the risk for a big bot farm to be fully deleted, but really from CIP perspective it could just be that you visited a friends house with your laptop and logged in using his network (thus his IP address).

Hope this helps a bit.

First of all, thanks @Josh for contributing on this post. I still have a few questions:

So can somebody else have the same IP-Address that I have? Isn't that bad for government and other tracking organizations because they won't be able to identify each computer?

So VPS are only useful for avoiding the 'server save' or for switching from one botting computer to another without having to wait in order to bot 24/7?

"'VPS' don't hide your IP address but 'SSH Tunneling does'" Don't you get the 'server ip' and 'server port' from a 'VPS' to use 'tunneling'?
As I keep reading through your post I get confused since you said previously that VPS and Proxies work together to hide IP-Address but here you say, "Botting all accounts on a VPS is only useful for not leaving your PC on 24/7, so as you say, it doesn't really reduce deletion risk at all." And don't VPS and tunneling work together to hide your IP-Address.

All the information you are providing is really useful. Thanks for clarifying that Proxies act like 'Waze application' which re-route cars to other highways to lower traffic. It makes it way more clear now.

Do you use 'NoPing' for hiding your IP-Address from CiftSoft as well or which VPS would you recommend us for that?


Lastly and most important, is the main idea of VPS and proxies to use a different IP-Addres within the same computer by using different 'server-IP' and 'server-port' on each tibia client or can all your tibia clients run inside the same 'server-IP' and 'server-port?



Thanks, I believe this will be useful for the community.

[Josh]

First of all, thanks @Josh for contributing on this post. I still have a few questions:

So can somebody else have the same IP-Address that I have? Isn't that bad for government and other tracking organizations because they won't be able to identify each computer?

So VPS are only useful for avoiding the 'server save' or for switching from one botting computer to another without having to wait in order to bot 24/7?

"'VPS' don't hide your IP address but 'SSH Tunneling does'" Don't you get the 'server ip' and 'server port' from a 'VPS' to use 'tunneling'?
As I keep reading through your post I get confused since you said previously that VPS and Proxies work together to hide IP-Address but here you say, "Botting all accounts on a VPS is only useful for not leaving your PC on 24/7, so as you say, it doesn't really reduce deletion risk at all." And don't VPS and tunneling work together to hide your IP-Address.

All the information you are providing is really useful. Thanks for clarifying that Proxies act like 'Waze application' which re-route cars to other highways to lower traffic. It makes it way more clear now.

Do you use 'NoPing' for hiding your IP-Address from CiftSoft as well or which VPS would you recommend us for that?


Lastly and most important, is the main idea of VPS and proxies to use a different IP-Addres within the same computer by using different 'server-IP' and 'server-port' on each tibia client or can all your tibia clients run inside the same 'server-IP' and 'server-port?



Thanks, I believe this will be useful for the community.

I think I've done a really bad job of explaining this... Let me start again a bit.

IP pooling is a relatively new thing. Governments and such don't track you by IP, in fact, they don't really "track" anyone. They generally tend to look at large portions of data to detect certain keywords, then analyse the data, and if it contains something they are concerned about they will look at the IP address, speak with the ISP, and inevitably find out who held the lease for that IP address at that time. The systems that are in place to permit IP pooling are very intricate, and they come with tracking built in - they have to, otherwise your ISP wouldn't know where to send your data to. Governments and other organisations never really had any ability to track any individual anyway, only to trace individual bits of data to their origin. Short of tracking the origin of two separate pieces of data, they would have no way to link the two together.

Edit: Somebody can use your IP address, yes, but this does not mean that they can do so through their own choice - usually IP pooling is only done to people who use the internet in very limited ways, so anyone who plays games regularly and uses a good amount of bandwidth won't have to endure it. It's also done by the ISP, not by the end user. I don't think it's really possible to "pick" an IP address, if it is there are very few ways to do so and it will often be incredibly expensive.

A VPS is just a computer which lives somewhere else in the world. It is no more than that. It is "designed" and primarily sold as a tool to host web services (e.g WindBot website, Skype servers, etc). It has been used for various other purposes, including SSH tunnelling and as a PC to bot on. In order to do SSH tunnelling using WindAddons you need a machine running an SSH service, and the minimum viable service for that is a VPS.

If you use a VPS for SSH tunnelling, yes, it will hide your IP address from CipSoft. Instead, they will see the IP address of the VPS itself.

Good analogy with the Waze traffic redirection, that's a pretty good approximation and very easy to understand.

I have used NoPing in the past, however I haven't intentionally used it to hide my IP address (though it did do so, that wasn't why I was using it). My only use for it was to stop the masskicks that were happening over the last few months, and for that job it worked really well. It does indeed hide your IP address, but it means you share an IP address with some other people, many of whom are probably botting... How beneficial that might be is for you to decide, but personally I would sooner rent a $5 VPS and use that, if my only purpose is to hide my IP address. If you pick a VPS very carefully, you can even reduce latency and potentially avoid mass-kicks... Sadly I don't know exactly which VPS would stop masskicks, but there is no reason it wouldn't be possible.

As described above, the main purpose of VPS is to host web services. The fact that it can be used for SSH tunnelling and even to bot on is just coincidence. I highly recommend using one to hide your IP address if you are botting more than 10 accounts, but otherwise I fear it would be excessive. Beyond that, it's the most efficient product for the job. Your options for SSH tunnelling are:

• a service (e.g NoPing), which is usually overpriced, and less safe because you are sharing an IP with lots of other people anyway.
• a VPS which gives you an IP that you will *probably* be the only user of.
• a dedicated server, which is basically the same as a VPS, except that a VPS is a virtual-machine running on a hypervisor (imagine running inside VirtualBox), as opposed to a physical machine (e.g your PC).

There are others, but they are only going to add confusion and won't offer any benefit to the conversation here.

[Blini]

I think I've done a really bad job of explaining this... Let me start again a bit.

IP pooling is a relatively new thing. Governments and such don't track you by IP, in fact, they don't really "track" anyone. They generally tend to look at large portions of data to detect certain keywords, then analyse the data, and if it contains something they are concerned about they will look at the IP address, speak with the ISP, and inevitably find out who held the lease for that IP address at that time. The systems that are in place to permit IP pooling are very intricate, and they come with tracking built in - they have to, otherwise your ISP wouldn't know where to send your data to. Governments and other organisations never really had any ability to track any individual anyway, only to trace individual bits of data to their origin. Short of tracking the origin of two separate pieces of data, they would have no way to link the two together.

Edit: Somebody can use your IP address, yes, but this does not mean that they can do so through their own choice - usually IP pooling is only done to people who use the internet in very limited ways, so anyone who plays games regularly and uses a good amount of bandwidth won't have to endure it. It's also done by the ISP, not by the end user. I don't think it's really possible to "pick" an IP address, if it is there are very few ways to do so and it will often be incredibly expensive.

A VPS is just a computer which lives somewhere else in the world. It is no more than that. It is "designed" and primarily sold as a tool to host web services (e.g WindBot website, Skype servers, etc). It has been used for various other purposes, including SSH tunnelling and as a PC to bot on. In order to do SSH tunnelling using WindAddons you need a machine running an SSH service, and the minimum viable service for that is a VPS.

If you use a VPS for SSH tunnelling, yes, it will hide your IP address from CipSoft. Instead, they will see the IP address of the VPS itself.

Good analogy with the Waze traffic redirection, that's a pretty good approximation and very easy to understand.

I have used NoPing in the past, however I haven't intentionally used it to hide my IP address (though it did do so, that wasn't why I was using it). My only use for it was to stop the masskicks that were happening over the last few months, and for that job it worked really well. It does indeed hide your IP address, but it means you share an IP address with some other people, many of whom are probably botting... How beneficial that might be is for you to decide, but personally I would sooner rent a $5 VPS and use that, if my only purpose is to hide my IP address. If you pick a VPS very carefully, you can even reduce latency and potentially avoid mass-kicks... Sadly I don't know exactly which VPS would stop masskicks, but there is no reason it wouldn't be possible.

As described above, the main purpose of VPS is to host web services. The fact that it can be used for SSH tunnelling and even to bot on is just coincidence. I highly recommend using one to hide your IP address if you are botting more than 10 accounts, but otherwise I fear it would be excessive. Beyond that, it's the most efficient product for the job. Your options for SSH tunnelling are:

• a service (e.g NoPing), which is usually overpriced, and less safe because you are sharing an IP with lots of other people anyway.
• a VPS which gives you an IP that you will *probably* be the only user of.
• a dedicated server, which is basically the same as a VPS, except that a VPS is a virtual-machine running on a hypervisor (imagine running inside VirtualBox), as opposed to a physical machine (e.g your PC).

There are others, but they are only going to add confusion and won't offer any benefit to the conversation here.

Thanks for all this information and help to the thread!

I decided not to hide my IP since I am only boting two accounts.

This info was so helpful and it is clear now everything about IP and VPS.

[Josh]

Thanks for all this information and help to the thread!

I decided not to hide my IP since I am only boting two accounts.

This info was so helpful and it is clear now everything about IP and VPS.

I think that's the right decision... Previously I was bottign 4 accounts (4 vocation, actually) on Olympa pretty much 24/7, 2 of them on navigation on Draken Walls, one on Roshamaal Buckets, and one on Lizard City / Souleaters. You would think that if they detected the ED which was botting on navigation with the EK constantly, they would check the IP address and realise that actually, the EK was also botting... They did not - I got deleted on the ED and not on the EK. The only reason they would use IP addresses to delete people is if there are a lot of accounts on the same IP, with some other link...

[saska]

if i want be safe don't use vps,tibia tunnel and no ping and be good ?

[Stephano]

Hey guys, just one random question that came to my mind reading this thread.
Currently I have a dynamic IPv4 adress.
Since these adressed run out here in Brazil, now my IPS is only offering plans with IPv4 on CGNAT + IPv6.
Would be a smart choice change from my IPv4 to CGNAT just to avoid CipSoft knowing my real IP?

[Josh]

Hey guys, just one random question that came to my mind reading this thread.
Currently I have a dynamic IPv4 adress.
Since these adressed run out here in Brazil, now my IPS is only offering plans with IPv4 on CGNAT + IPv6.
Would be a smart choice change from my IPv4 to CGNAT just to avoid CipSoft knowing my real IP?

The way CGNAT works is mysterious to me really, but my understanding is that they give you an "internal local IPv4 address" and put you on some huge-scale LAN. That is translated to IPv6 wherever possible in the outside world, and the LAN itself is handled by packet padding. Beyond that, data is controlled by checking the source on the LAN, as well as the external destination, and the data-flow effectively means that between 100 people there could be 10 IP addresses. If two people on the LAN are using the same service (e.g Tibia), they will be assigned one of the IPs each, thus every bit of traffic can be routed appropriately.

As for whether this will do you any favours with CIP, well, it's kinda hard to say. Depending on how CGNAT really works (if it follows my "estimate" above, or if it has some other magic), it might be that you actually get a different IP for each client you run, although this is probably unlikely. Whether it's worthwhile to you is just down to preference. You probably shouldn't mass-bot more than 10 accounts on the same IP, but if you take CGNAT, you will most likely never have your old IP anyway, so it doesn't *really* change anything except that your IP is changed once.

Edit: a bit of research tells me that the above is likely true - CGNAT does work in the ways described, and a bit of thinking on the subject tells me that actually this is quite likely to increase latency... To what degree depends on the hardware and method of implementation, but there is no way that CGNAT could not have a performance impact. Personally, I would try to avoid it at all costs... It might start off having a 0.00001% impact, but It will only get worse as more people begin to use it and the inevitable result in my opinion is the whole world slowing down.